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Ospreay vs PAC: A box office seller?

Discussion in 'International Wrestling' started by Morton Downey Jr, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:27 PM.

  1. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    They have sold out a small building that holds 1,200.

    In other words they have succeeded in drawing a small niche audience to part with their money. They are both still hacks. But well done to them.

    But let's not pretend that either are a draw or breaking the mainstream please. It'll be a spotfest that a small audience will enjoy on the night and forget about 6 months later when some other smarky event is held in another bingo hall.
     
  2. Davey Wrestling

    Davey Wrestling Rookie

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    I'm curious, do you believe that nothing should have evolved past what it was in 1989 or is it just pro-wrestling?

    The gimmicks getting old brother.
     
  3. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    You honestly think wrestling has evolved for the better? I can show you some statistics that would debunk that belief.

    The point is that the wrestling community lives in a bubble. They may enjoy crappy spotfests like this. But it does nothing for the industry in the long-run. It's not what the wider audience want to see.
     
  4. Davey Wrestling

    Davey Wrestling Rookie

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    Yes, wrestling has evolved for the better because now you can watch pretty much any style at any time. There's more choice and its more accessible.

    Your reasoning for everything you say seems to be that less people are watching now than have in the past. What you're failing to take into account/choosing to ignore is that much more content (wrestling or otherwise) is available now, with much easier, more instant ways to access it than ever before.

    I don't need to watch endless hours of programming when the tv schedule says I should to get my wrestling fix - I can find out what was worth watching and just watch that, instantly, at any point after a show has aired. For example, I'm a Daniel Bryan mark and I've watched maybe 10 minutes of Smackdown in total since his return. On Youtube. I'm just one of many that won't be factored into regular viewing figures any more.

    As for the wider audience? There is no large market for pro wrestling, only the hardcore and what wrestling taps into when they manage to get something to crossover into the mainstream. In the 80s it was rock'n'wrestling, in the late 90s it was the Monday night wars. In terms of what's going on in pro-wrestling as a whole right now it could well be on the verge of something big again simply because, with so much diversity out there, something could catch on with the masses. But it almost certainly won't be down to WWE, because (for the most part) their main tv product is poorly written, full of filler segments and repetitive.

    On to Ospreay and PAC - the best any match or promotion can do is sell out the building they're booked in. This is what they've done. But for a lot of wrestling fans (myself included) this is a dream match because, other than Ricochet, nobody else does this style as well as these two.
     
  5. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    Wrong.

    Research shows there are fewer wrestling fans than ever. If you honestly think there are more fans than ever then you are stupid.

    Wrestling has never been worse. There are no stars and most of the content is high-spot garbage. Most wrestlers don't look like wrestlers either and have very little charisma or character.
     
  6. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    Nothing will catch on with the masses.

    What is there that could attract normal human beings? The Young Bucks? Kenny Omega? Do me a favour. You are living in a bubble and are detached from reality.

    Ospreay and Pac will never be significant draws.
     
  7. Davey Wrestling

    Davey Wrestling Rookie

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    Did you even read what I wrote?
     
  8. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    You said it's better because it's accessible and there is more diverse content. That doesn't matter. Because the content is shit of all types. Why would people want to have better access to garbage.

    Only 15 years ago we had Lesnar, Angle, Batista, Orton, HHH and others on our TV sets on a weekly basis. Why should people who watched that era be impressed today that they can watch a hack like Ospreay and two weeds like the Young Bucks.

    Your argument is also destroyed by WWE's Youtube figures. It's always Lesnar and Reigns that draw views. Not Bryan and similar hacks. The Evolution angle on Smackdown a few months ago pissed all over Bryan's return segment. Ask yourself why that is. People know who the real stars are. Only the complete nerds who shout the loudest want to see the likes of Ospreay and Zayn.
     
  9. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    This isn't wrestling. It's dancing or synchronised swimming

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Roadster

    Roadster Il Capitano Administrator

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    I'm not fan of Ospreay, but I don't get what the point of hating on the style is about?

    They sold out an arena that's gonna be hot for their match, and they made a pretty penny off of it. I'm not gonna watch nor do I intend to ever watch an Ospreay match, but those that paid to see it are gonna get what they paid for.

    Acting like this is a WWE show and that these two guys are killing the WWE and pro-wrestling is just silly. Neville pulled big pops and did fairly well in the merch department. He was very good as a cruiserweight and likely wasn't going to be utilized beyond anything other than an upper mid-carder. Ospreay makes 6 figures on the indy circuit and that's his dig. People want to see that style of wrestling, hardly like you'd pack out 1k for a wrestle fuck like Evolve used to be. Everyone has their own taste. Who gives a shit if they're doing it.
     
  11. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    I will go slow so even you can understand

    - I think the significance of the match is being overstated

    - I think their style hurts the appeal of pro wrestling. It doesn't even look like fighting.

    - I don't have a problem with Neville. But Ospreay is a great example of what is wrong with wrestling

    - It was stupid to say that wrestling outside of WWE might break the mainstream. Never going to happen at present time with the talent that is featured

    - It's a hot topic because stuff like this is sending wrestling in the wrong direction

    Happy?
     
  12. Davey Wrestling

    Davey Wrestling Rookie

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    There is no significance to the match other than it being two of the top performers of their style being booked in an indy fed in the UK and a large portion of the internet fanbase wanting to see it because they find that style entertaining.

    Their style is the natural evolution of the style the Dynamite Kid and (pre) Jushin Liger were using on World of Sport in the 80s. It is part of the wide tapestry of styles that make pro-wrestling so unique.To say that it hurts the appeal of pro wrestling because it doesn't look like fighting, and then using approximately one quarter of one sequence in a match to prove the point is laughable.

    That spot was counter after counter that concluded in the snippet you posted, the sequence, which worked well in the context of the match, proves how evenly matched these opponents are. I've posted the whole match below - given your in depth knowledge on the style and its implications for the business as a whole I've no doubt that you've already seen the entire thing....

    And just because you appear to be confused: The wrestlers are part of the attraction for any potential mainstream audience, they are not the attraction in and of itself. For a mainstream audience to become involved there needs to be a larger storyline or hook at play that transends the storylines on the show. Rock'n'wrestling and the Monday night wars did that emphatically and Lesnars UFC star power does that partially. Nothing else has come close.

    World of Sport appearing on primetime Saturday night tv could be an indication of whats to come from the none-WWE promotions. Then again it might not.

    You don't seem to understand how televised pro wrestling works.

    That match in full
     
  13. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    It's a crappy evolution. It looks like dancing. It's not just one spot either. You are living in a delusional bubble.

    The rest of your post is pretentious neckbeard bullshit. Brazilian fart porn is technically a brand of cinema. Doesn't make it an acceptable brand of cinema. In fact it only appears to weirdos. Same as people who enjoy Will Ospreay matches.


    Wrong.

    It's always been a star-driven business. Hogan and Savage were Vince's meal ticket in the 80s. The rest were the side-salad. Same with Austin and Rock in the late 90s. There isn't a wrestler or angle at the moment that can draw in the masses.

    Do you honestly think that Hogan didn't carry the company for much of the 1980s? I can show you some gate receipts from that period that would prove that you are an idiot.

    How were the ratings for WOS on ITV? They started terribly and got worse. They would not be any better if you and the 3 other 40 year old neckbeards who enjoy this Ospreay's style got your way, and we got ballroom dancing wrestling on primetime TV. It just doesn't sell.

    Bullshit.

    It looked like two men messing around doing acrobatics. I don't expect everything in wrestling to look real. And am open to suspending by disbelief. But these two jobbers and their fanboys take things to the extreme.
     
  14. Davey Wrestling

    Davey Wrestling Rookie

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    I've never seen any Brazilian fart porn. I imagine it's more informative and entertaining than talking to you though?

    WWF didn't become a mainstream success because of the existence of Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan became a star and a draw because of WWFs expansion, the Rock'n'Wrestling marketing that took WWF into the mainstream and Wrestlemania which took it over the edge - three scenarios that transcended pro-wrestling itself. Hogan might have been picked as the star by Vince and become a draw because of his push, but wrestling didn't go mainstream because of him, he went mainstream because of everything else that was going on around him. They could easily have had Piper/anybody else with a decent physique and charisma fill Hogans boots and still had the success they had in the 80s.

    Rock and Austin became stars because the Monday Night War (again a storyline that wasn't written but happening in real life) was attracting mainstream attention and their characters were different enough and charisma was high enough that they got pushed when interest in wrestling was high. They didn't create the interest, they became stars because of it, which is how they became draws in the first place.

    Oh, the ratings sucked, but the fact that a major free to air station was willing to try it out in the first place is progress. ITV didn't help themselves with the almost comedy presentation.

    As for the ballroom dancing - we already get that on primetime TV and it's one of the top rated shows on BBC. Irrelevant to the thread but a fact nonetheless.
     
  15. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    You are seriously stupid.

    Hogan had the crowd interaction skills, look and presence that was needed. No one else was fit for that role.

    Wrong.

    WWF was struggling to generate interest. The Austin vs Tyson angle drew viewers from Nitro to RAW. Austin was the only man fit for the job. The Rock then became a mega star in his own right and was fit to take over when Austin got injured in late 1999.

    The fact is that Ospreay, The Young Bucks or whoever will never appeal to the mainstream audience.
     
  16. Davey Wrestling

    Davey Wrestling Rookie

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    A ridiculous statement. Piper was far superior when it came to crowd interaction, and his presence was unmatched even by Hogan. In fact the only advantage Hogan had was that he had the look that made Vince McMahon hard.

    Wrong? In terms of the fact that the Monday Night War between Raw and Nitro is the reason that Tyson was brought in? Or the fact that wrestling as a whole only had a mainstream audience for Austin and the Rock to get over with because of this actual real world competition between the two promotions?

    Oh wait, that's right, neither of those things are wrong!

    Think before you type, dullard.
     
  17. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    Piper was not superior to Hogan in terms of getting the crowd behind him. The look was also very important. To say that Piper could have been the lead babyface is moronic.

    You really are a moron. WWF brought Tyson in for business. As they would do in any era. WWF has constantly worked with celebrities throughout every era. It wasn't exclusive to the Monday Night Wars. WWF gave Austin the platform, yes. But the rub would not have worked with just any talent. Austin was fit for the job and the ratings went up as he was pushed as the company's main act. Had Austin not had the good. Then WWF would have probably died. Vince was thinking of scaling back in late 1997.

    WWF was not mainstream before 1997. The ratings were poor compared to Nitro. Business improved off the back of making Austin a star. By your retarded logic, anyone could have steered the WWF to those numbers during that period.

    Face it, you are a 40 year old neckbeard living in denial. I bet you think Bryan was mega draw in the making.
     
  18. Roadster

    Roadster Il Capitano Administrator

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    No one said this match has any significance.
     
  19. Highspot

    Highspot Failure is not an option Administrator

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    No name calling so get your point across or agree to disagree. If no one is willing to follow the rules, I'll be willing to handout a ban.

    Back on topic.
     
  20. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Indie Wrestler

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    Too much hype around it for my liking.
     

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