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AJ Styles overrated.

Discussion in 'SmackDown LIVE!' started by Morton Downey Jr, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    People on internet forums act like he's the 2nd coming of christ. He's a very good in-ring performer, but he has weaknesses in other areas.

    Given his size, look, mic skills, and numerous other attributes, he's never going to be a massive drawing card in the United States. Popular with the current fanbase and worthy of an upper mid-card slot? Yes. Popular enough to make a significant contribution to WWE's business? No. His numbers as world champion are in line with other champions on Smackdown.

    Styles isn't in the same league as Savage, Flair, Austin and others. He's a good talent, who competes in a weak era. That's it.
     
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  2. ¡Tranquilo!

    ¡Tranquilo! Indie Wrestler Donor

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    He carried TNA for about a decade, made Bullet Club relevant, almost never had a bad match and moves a shit ton of merch and is over as fuck in WWE how exactly is he overrated?
    Maybe you could make the case if you're considering only his run in WWE and even then he's still got a fairly insane list of accomplishments that show not only are the fans behind him but the company is aswell.
     
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  3. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    He didn't carry TNA at all. Overall, Sting was their biggest drawing card I believe. Angle and others also contributed just as much as Styles, maybe even more.

    He's over in WWE, but he's not a significant drawing card. He doesn't shift that much merchandise, others shift a lot more. He also isn't that big of a TV draw.

    He's not on the same level as Flair, Savage and Austin like some think he is. Therefore he is very overrated.
     
  4. Punk

    Punk Commissioner Platinum D-Generation X

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    He solely didn't carry TNA, but to say he didn't help at all would be a dumb thing to say. (If you're saying that at all.)

    And what do you mean he doesn't sell merch a lot? He's been consistently in the top 10 spot since his debut and usually top 5.
    As of right now, he's the only superstar to have 2 top selling shirts in the top 10. To say he doesn't shift around merchandise is a straight up lie.

    As for drawing, he does have power depending on the opponent. Obviously you could give credit to the opponent for making it look like they're the actual draw, but you expect people to believe that Jinder Vs. Brock would get more eyes than AJ Styles Vs Brock?

    Or that people weren't excited for Styles Vs. Balor at TLC more than Bray Vs Balor?

    And no one compares Styles to the likes of Flair, Savage and Austin. No one on the roster in the last decade compares to them except a certain few. They praise his in-ring work as he's the best current worker/performer in the world today.
    Michaels has said it, Edge has said it, Flair has said it, Austin has said it, Cena has said it and the list goes on and on.

    People who've said it in the business literally refute whatever you're trying to get across. Most of the shit you're saying is just ridiculous if I'm being honest. Just seems like a reason to hate on the dude who has only improved in the business or to start a random debate. /no flame
     
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  5. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    His merchandise numbers are not that impressive. Cena sells more, Orton sells about the same, despite them being 15 year veterans and being way past their prime.

    TNA? He played a decent role. But he wasn't that significant to business. Sting and Angle were the two most important figures in that regard.

    You are living in a bubble. To hardcore wrestling fans, Styles vs Balor is a wet dream. But those fans will watch anything. To casual fans, it doesn't provoke any more interest than any other match at the top end of the card. Styles's TV numbers and house show numbers as champion on Smackdown were similar to Jinder's. Again, Styles is popular with the current audience, but has limited appeal beyond that. He isn't going to sell out stadiums or be what Cena was to the company for years.

    Best in-ring performer? Probably, but certainly not the best all-round performer. Is he great on the mic? Not really, he's just okay. Does he pass the eye test? Just about, but he's still too small and goofy looking. Does he have the same physical presence as a Brock or Goldberg? No. If I was starting a wrestling company and wanted to make money, I would book him as a upper mid-carder, nothing more.
     
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  6. Punk

    Punk Commissioner Platinum D-Generation X

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    Wait, you're comparing a guy who's been with the company for 2 years for not selling as much merchandise as the top tier guys who've been there for 15+ years? Where's the logic in that? He's been top 10 merchandise seller since his debut. If Roman is ill, Vince will have Styles fly out to replace him. That's how much value he sees in him as a star.

    He played a decent role in TNA? Sting and Angle's official full-time debut was in late 2005/late 2006. They had a TV deal in 2004 and late 2005 before Sting joined. Are you saying that AJ had nothing to do with that? AJ was the prominent featured star within the first 3 years, mind you when they acquired Hogan, Hardy, Flair, Bischoff and Hall the BIGGEST names in wrestling, AJ was made World Champ and center of attention. You're legitimately speaking out of your ass.

    And to use the argument that hardcore wrestling fans would obviously be more invested in those wet dream matches does have truth to it. But to say a casual fan would want to see Jinder Vs. Brock , two heels facing off rather than a typical face vs heel story? I don't know about that.

    And yet again, you are using the arguments that legitimately hold no weight. You're saying he isn't gonna sell out arena's like Cena, the man WWE pushed to the moon, was drafted on the number one weekly episodic television show on Monday nights. The man who was on top of the game for over a decade.

    You're comparing HIM... to Styles.

    Your logic is seriously flawed. If he deserves to be a mid-carder, what's the hype with Cesaro getting a World Title run when Styles is better at him both in-ring and on the mic?

    And as much as I love my bigger than life superstars like Brock Lesnar and Goldberg, Styles is definitely deserving of his current role.
     
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  7. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    Stop crying geek

    Styles had no name value in 2004 outside of TNA's little niche in Orlando. He wasn't a factor in TNA getting a TV deal. They got that deal because WWE was leaving the network, and TNA was the next big thing. Nash and Jarrett were bigger names at that time. AJ wasn't the center of attention in 2010 either. Hogan was, and rightly so.

    Cena draws money because he has the right look and he is someone the company can get behind and sell. Styles doesn't have those qualities. If you honestly think that Styles would draw massive numbers with the company's support, then you are seriously delusional. He just hasn't got the it factor to be a massive draw.

    A fresh star - if he has the potential to draw - should be able to sell numbers on par with the established names. Styles doesn't do that. There's no excuse for him. Does he sell a decent amount of merchandise? Yes. Enough to justify being pushed as the company's figurehead? Not on your life.

    Styles is fine as an upper-mid carder and transitional World Champion. But he's nothing more than that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  8. andie

    andie Piss off Ghost! D-Generation X

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    When you compare Styles to guys like Austin, I don’t really feel like that helps your case. It’s hard to compare any facet of wrestling now compared to back then, back then it was much more mainstream. It was hard to find a teen-adult male who didn’t watch it, and it was the talk that was centered around in school.

    Wrestling now, while still somewhat popular, feels a lot more niche. You’re not gonna run into many adults who watch the WWE in this day and age. And if you see a teen who watches wrestling, it’s probably because they’re wearing a Bullet Club shirt.

    Of which, Styles helped popularize. Kenny is sorta expanding on the structure that Styles built, making NJPW more known to the western market. I’m not gonna attribute NJPW’s bigger reach to Styles alone, but he definitely played a big role.

    Styles has bettered every company he’s been apart of, it’s hard to argue that the brand split would’ve worked without Styles on Smackdown. WWE realized that and failed to pull the trigger to put Styles on RAW, because he’s basically holding an entire brand together. Ambrose vs AJ was pivotal for successfully establishing the SDL brand.

    You may not like his in-ring acumen, and you’re free to not like whoever you want. But you can’t dismiss what he’s done for the business.
     
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  9. Punk

    Punk Commissioner Platinum D-Generation X

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    lol, apparently calling you out on your shit fantasty booking and delusional mindset means I'm a geek. fucking wrestling fans lol

    With your logic, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk every single vanilla midget didn't deserve a World Champion run because you're too high on getting off on body builders. Now if you dare tell me that Daniel Bryan had the size or look, I'm done arguing with your dumbass.

    They had a deal prior with Fox and lol, calling Jarrett a draw. Please stop. Bigger name? Yeah obviously, you'd be a retard not to see that. But calling Jarrett a draw just fucking lol. pathetic
    He put himself in the the center of his company and what? He made himself a huge star. Now what's to say if WWE didn't do that with Styles, it wouldn't work. If it worked with, "Can't draw a dime" Jarrett, why is Styles not possible? You literally contradict yourself on so many levels.

    So lets get this correct. You're arguing that Styles is overrated because he doesn't have the look, the size or the mic skills.
    Look? Debatable
    Size? Taller than Chris Jericho but okay
    Mic Skills? Better than Orton
    Wrestling ability? Arguably Top 3 within the world

    Where's the overrated part? In which department is he overrated? Is it just because you don't personally like him?

    He's a draw that was signed purely to be a draw. And they found more use within him after he adapted to the WWE style so quickly. They wouldn't sign no random 40 year old and put him on the main roster immediately. No one is saying he's gonna match Cena numbers. But who is to say, if he was promoted that way, that he wouldn't? He was only on RAW for 5 months, his exposure is only SmackDown which regularly gets lower ratings than RAW. Yet he manages to be top merchandise seller.

    Yet he gets prominently featured in big matches, he's getting high rated matches, the fans support is like no other. But you call him overrated like he's being shoved down our throats? Mind you, I don't give a shit about Meltzer's ratings, but if you really wanna call someone overrated say that to Finn Balor who legit has nothing special about him aside from his demon entrance.

    Say that to Bobby Roode who again has done nothing special aside from his glorious entrance shit. And mind you, I'm a huge Roode mark since his TNA days, but to make retarded remarks on who's overrated without having no argument laid out. What the fuck are you even trying to debate?

    I legit can't be bothered debating with you when everything you say makes no sense.
    When AJ is eventually drafted to RAW, we'll see how he does. And it's obvious in my eyes that his career is only gonna go upwards from here on out. He's already cemented his name in WWE.
     
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  10. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    Did you have aspergers?

    I never said that Jarrett was a massive draw. Just that he was one of the most recognizable name that TNA had in 2005 off the back of his WCW run in 2000, and WWF run in the late 90's. Of course, Styles today is bigger than Jarrett in 2005. He's had more exposure on the grand stage since then. But at the time Styles was a non-factor in TNA getting on Spike TV, no one knew who he was. People knew who Nash, Jarrett, and others were. Sting was the wrestler who first spiked TNA's ratings on Spike. He was their main draw, as he had the most notable influence on business, not Styles

    As I said, Styles is fine as a transitional champion. As were Punk and Bryan. But none of those have the potential to be significant drawing cards. Insiders from in the company have confirmed that the numbers just were not there with Punk and Bryan - such as Kevin Eck. Again, his merchandise numbers are not that impressive for the spot he is in.

    I am saying that he wouldn't draw Cena numbers. Cena looks the part, and is easy for the company to sell to the casual audience. Just as Austin was, Rock was, and Hogan was. Styles is too small, too goofy looking, and isn't charismatic enough. He has too many weaknesses. There's more to being a good wrestler than in-ring work. A good look is more important a lot of the time.

    Finn Balor is nothing special either.

    My argument is simple. Styles is a good talent, but he's not an all-time great because he hasn't got what it takes to be a significant draw or complete performer. He has too many holes in his game. Yet people online hype him as he's the 2nd coming of jesus.

    His mic skills are also no better than Orton's. He may be better than Orton is in the ring, but Orton has a better look, more physical presence, and is easier to sell. Therefore he is the more complete performer of the two. Roode has the potential to be as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  11. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    I never said he wasn't good inside the ropes.

    But he hasn't done that much for "the business". NJPW is only a niche product in the west. Styles hasn't bettered WWE's overall product. It's been shit for years, and has continued to be shit since he turned up. He hasn't had a significant effect numbers wise either. Jinder drew the same numbers as Styles when he was champion - Login on Twitter

    Cena was the ratings draw on Smackdown when he was on. The house show and ratings spiked directly in correlation with his appearance. Styles was a non-factor.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  12. Juventudinho

    Juventudinho Il Capitano Administrator

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    Hardly.

    Styles was the champion during the time period where SmackDown out-drew RAW in the ratings, for the first time ever. Mahal was mediocre or sub-par, and never got that close to breaking RAW's glass ceiling. Mind you, Mahal was champion during the post-Mania hype. Styles became champion during the slump of Sept-Jan, and beat RAW in December.
     
  13. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    Cena was the true draw. RAW was also head to head against NFL.

    Mahal was champion on Smackdown when RAW wasn't head to head with NFL. So that's a unfair comparison. The house show numbers are more reflective of how significant a draw Styles is. Styles is a better performer than Mahal of course. But neither have the potential to be major drawing cards. Both have too many weaknesses, just in different ways.
     
  14. Juventudinho

    Juventudinho Il Capitano Administrator

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    At the end of the day, I still highly disagree that Styles is overrated.

    He's one of the few talents that has become a world champion in almost every company he's been a regular in. And to say that he was a pawn in TNA's early history with no name recognition isn't true. He was signed with WCW, and had numerous trials with WWE. He was offered a deal by the WWE, but turned it down to stay in his hometown. He went on to be one of the few established young stars, carried the X-Division, which drew some tremendous praise and ratings for TNA at the time. He transitioned into the main event role and by 2012, was on-par with Sting and Angle in-terms of merchandise and name/brand recognition.
     
  15. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    TNA's most fruitful period was 2007-2008 off the back of Sting and Angle.

    The X-division never drew significant money. He was a decent hand for TNA in the early years, but he wasn't someone who opened any doors for them.
     
  16. Juventudinho

    Juventudinho Il Capitano Administrator

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    Sting and Angle wouldn't have joined if the crop of talent wasn't good enough to elevate it.

    The bottom line is, Styles is one of the best of this generation.
     
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  17. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    Angle joined because WWE fired him, and TNA was the next big thing.

    Sting joined because TNA had gotten a decent TV deal. He showed up in the early days as well when they did weekly PPV's. Nothing to do with Styles.

    Is Styles the best in-ring performer of his generation? Probably. Is he the best performer full stop? Nowhere near. He's better than Zayn, Owens, Bryan and Rollins though. I will give him that.
     
  18. Juventudinho

    Juventudinho Il Capitano Administrator

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    But why was TNA the next big thing? Why did they get a lucrative TV deal?

    Styles was a big part of that. I'm not saying he was the sole reason, but definitely a big part. A big enough part that he was put into a program with Savage, Nash, and Hall in their debut year in TNA (2004). Going over, no less.
     
  19. Morton Downey Jr

    Morton Downey Jr Rookie

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    They got a TV deal because of Panda's backing, WWE leaving Spike, and because they had a few recognizable names from the late 90's. Barely anyone outside of hardcore wrestling fans knew who Styles was before 2005. They knew Nash, Jarrett, The Outlaws, and other talent TNA had.

    The first TV deal was only small on Fox Sport Net. It aired in the afternoon, and barely anyone saw it. Which was a shame, because Nash and Hall did some great work on it.
     
  20. Juventudinho

    Juventudinho Il Capitano Administrator

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    You're missing the point. TNA needed to have some prospect of success for anyone to take a chance on them.
     

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